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 Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts

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Mini Balli
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PostSubject: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Sun May 05, 2013 6:09 am

After the mission today we had a discussion about making guild missions mandatory.

I don't think we should make all of them mandatory, and in basic I would like people to join by will and not force, and our idea with the guild was a "family-guild" who like to play together, help each other and advance together.

It should be in everyone's interest to participate in guild missions. Not just for personal weekly reward, but for merit to the guild so we can unlock some of the other awesome missions, which also will result in more personal rewards for everyone.

If we make Sunday "mandatory", go full in and do everything to finish the highest tier so we have the merits done, and use the other days to train different bosses we are unsure about and for people to finish weekly reward if they couldn't join Sunday.
I liked what we did today. Twapper arranged a tier3 training to try some of the bosses we tend to struggle with, and we all learned from it.

It was suggested as well to do a kind of DKP-system/point system or rewards for people to join.
With making such system requires much more work from the people who arrange it, and we don't have anything in guild to give out (as we don't ask for taxes) so it would have to be a fundraising event for this, and could be a bit messy. If our guild were bigger and we had taxes and a rich guild this would work good.
Also I don't like the idea that we need to taunt people with rewards to join. Everyone should join to help the guild, guildmates and for the social fun.

The same goes for the events Aziff and Titus have arranged lately. They have posted in a lot of money themselves, and I think we should be a bit careful with this. The point was to gather money for legendary and commanders for guildmates, and not for someone to have a big cost on their shoulders, and if people get used to this, they only wanna join if they can get something.

I know things are not black and white, and I don't think we should kick anyone if they don't join a guild mission, also there is different cases where people can't join, but if they in general not joining us, I agree this is a problem.
It's a problem because the people who arrange the events are wasting their time and other guildmates time, so I will refer to what I typed above. Make Sunday guild mission day, and exspect people are joining here.

We have talked about promote someone to a social officer. Someone who can make sure all members join webpage and raidcall, get them integrated to the guild. As soon as people get that, they will also participate more in everything we do.

I like the talk we had, as it brought up important issues, and I agree pretty much with Twapper, and also thanks to Twapper for using so much of his time to arrange these mission.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Sun May 05, 2013 6:32 am

OMG im such a noob, when did you typed all that?? We just went over some things on skype. Damn You are fast. I cant read as fast as you type. i fell duuuhhhh

On the subject tho. Everything sounds great! and i agree that at the moment we dont need a DKP system.

Thanks for typing this Balli. Speedy fingers

Vote on making Guild Missions on Sundays Mandatory
Vote Here


Last edited by Twapper on Sun May 05, 2013 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Sun May 05, 2013 6:52 am

I say no to mandatory the guild missions are tough and time consuming the only times we have sucess with tier 3 wen had 60+ preople taking part and pre scouted every boss and this took anywhere form 1 hr to 2hr 30.

Sunday is bad for me as I work every other weekend this weekend being one I work. (this isn't why I say no just to let you know why I might miss a lot)

I didn't join in titus event simply because I couldn't tell you if I'd be online or not for it. Problems with guild arranged events are that there discussed on raidcall and only a small portion of the guild speak on raidcall.

The small portion on raidcall also are the most commited so its likely everyone is on a similar page there but theres no way to tell what the rest of the guild think.

Things being forced will rub a lot of people who game more casually up the wrong way, and make it stressfull for whoever puts in the effort only to be let down.

Can we not just do low tiers and level slowly? I don't know about leveling a guild but our numbers are more suited to the lower tiers.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Sun May 05, 2013 7:41 am

I can't always log in on a sunday for long, since I work every sunday night. I'll always join in on guild missions when i'm on though. But on a sunday i may not be around for long or at all to join in. Why not have bounties spread throughout the week, and people can sign up for them on the forums? Maybe post a reminder in the message of the day, if not enough people sign up on a certain day then it can be scraped for another day.

The thing is, with a small guild it's going to be hard to get a commitment from a large group at one specific time. It might be best to move with baby steps for awhile.

Just speaking for myself, the people in this guild are lovely and I enjoy the relaxed friendly, casual atmosphere. If things became mandatory and strict, it may lose its charm.

The bounties I've done with you guys has all been smooth and fun btw, I think most people won't mind doing them a few times a week, even if they've already gotten their commendations. I know I don't, being online at a set time is the only tricky part.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents...sorry for rambling on! I love you
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Sun May 05, 2013 8:31 am

Mzem wrote:
I say no to mandatory the guild missions are tough and time consuming the only times we have sucess with tier 3 wen had 60+ preople taking part and pre scouted every boss and this took anywhere form 1 hr to 2hr 30.

Sunday is bad for me as I work every other weekend this weekend being one I work. (this isn't why I say no just to let you know why I might miss a lot)

I didn't join in titus event simply because I couldn't tell you if I'd be online or not for it. Problems with guild arranged events are that there discussed on raidcall and only a small portion of the guild speak on raidcall.

The small portion on raidcall also are the most commited so its likely everyone is on a similar page there but theres no way to tell what the rest of the guild think.

Things being forced will rub a lot of people who game more casually up the wrong way, and make it stressfull for whoever puts in the effort only to be let down.

Can we not just do low tiers and level slowly? I don't know about leveling a guild but our numbers are more suited to the lower tiers.

i see some good points in here but also some that i wanna argue with.

First ill start with the "big guild" ideea.

Yes, at the moment we are a medium sized guild, and i personally like that. I am currently happy with how things go and the people that surround me. However, the reason i brought the mandatory thing up, is to prevent something bad from happening (i.e. House of Mirrors). Like it or not we might end up being a big guild, and even if we all get along great, with great numbers comes great responsabilities/issues/complains/needs.
While i like and actually support taking things slow, learn about stuff, and get better gradually, doing only Tier 1 and Tier 2 is not really the way to go. Even more, today we were only 2 groups so even a Tier 2 would`ve been hard to succedd on.


Second i wanna clarify something in here too

Mandatory doesnt mean you have to log in, no matter what. It simply means that if you are in the game, and you know that on sundays we have set hours for guild missions, maybe choose to do that instead of doing a dungeon run. Now i used the word maybe, because even if you are loged in and you dont feel like doing a guild bounty, but you might go for a dungeon, thats still ok. However, being part of this guild should require as a general idea to help the guild, so if you keep choosing other activities instead of guild missions then thats where the problem will occur.

and Lastly the RaidCall topic

As you can read from Balli's post, we are trying to find ways to get more people on RaidCall. Altho i wanna disagree with you on the number of people that currently use RaidCall in our guild. I actually think, mostly from what i`ve seen, that the small portion is not the people on RaidCall, but the ones Not on it. Today for example when i asked people to join RaidCall, around 20 people out of 27 online came on RC. So while this can be improved, its still in great shape atm.

Thanks for reading all, hope the wall of text didnt crit you into downed state. Cheers for your comments, allways good to know what people think.


Also please check post for voting on this issue:
http://pain.actieforum.com/t37-guild-missions-mandatory-vote#181


Last edited by Twapper on Sun May 05, 2013 8:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Sun May 05, 2013 8:37 am

Ria Hazel wrote:
I can't always log in on a sunday for long, since I work every sunday night. I'll always join in on guild missions when i'm on though. But on a sunday i may not be around for long or at all to join in. Why not have bounties spread throughout the week, and people can sign up for them on the forums? Maybe post a reminder in the message of the day, if not enough people sign up on a certain day then it can be scraped for another day.

The thing is, with a small guild it's going to be hard to get a commitment from a large group at one specific time. It might be best to move with baby steps for awhile.

Just speaking for myself, the people in this guild are lovely and I enjoy the relaxed friendly, casual atmosphere. If things became mandatory and strict, it may lose its charm.

The bounties I've done with you guys has all been smooth and fun btw, I think most people won't mind doing them a few times a week, even if they've already gotten their commendations. I know I don't, being online at a set time is the only tricky part.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents...sorry for rambling on! I love you

Thanks for the 2 cents Ria.
Since most topic you brought up relate to what Mzem posted please refer to my reply on his post.

Also please check post for voting on this issue:
http://pain.actieforum.com/t37-guild-missions-mandatory-vote#181
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PuLoX
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Sun May 05, 2013 9:17 am

I do not agree that it becomes mandatory.
What is the next thing is going to be mandatory?

Things like raid call, check the forum, etc. I'll find that you may require.


Just about earlier:

Here in the Netherlands, most people eat around 15:00 to 16:00 (GMT).
That is in Dutch time 17:00 - 18:00 (GMT +1).
It was about 15:15 when the guild event started, so when I have also chosen not to participate.
This is because I knew I had to eat soon

I think you do much that is possible to participate.
Maybe you still have over people who will not participate.
But "a kick" what I previously heard say Twapper I can not find a solution.
Then first have a conversation with those people, and ask why they do it, and that it is an important thing for the guild.
Remember there is not to say that it is VERY nice!


Feathered we have the last few times best done poorly on tier 3.
Maybe we should once make a good overview of the bosses that you must defeat, and discuss tactics and execution.
Prepare the first take a look also for people to tactics.
And search through all NPCs in the locations.
So that everyone is an NPC, I believe this is not at all POIs but then you at least put most.
And then you can start the event.

Then you have won some time


Furthermore, if it is required does not matter to me if I can, I can, and if it is not I can not, I find guild events still fun.

PuLoX
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Sun May 05, 2013 9:43 am

PuLoX wrote:
I do not agree that it becomes mandatory.
What is the next thing is going to be mandatory?

Things like raid call, check the forum, etc. I'll find that you may require.


Just about earlier:

Here in the Netherlands, most people eat around 15:00 to 16:00 (GMT).
That is in Dutch time 17:00 - 18:00 (GMT +1).
It was about 15:15 when the guild event started, so when I have also chosen not to participate.
This is because I knew I had to eat soon

I think you do much that is possible to participate.
Maybe you still have over people who will not participate.
But "a kick" what I previously heard say Twapper I can not find a solution.
Then first have a conversation with those people, and ask why they do it, and that it is an important thing for the guild.
Remember there is not to say that it is VERY nice!


Feathered we have the last few times best done poorly on tier 3.
Maybe we should once make a good overview of the bosses that you must defeat, and discuss tactics and execution.
Prepare the first take a look also for people to tactics.
And search through all NPCs in the locations.
So that everyone is an NPC, I believe this is not at all POIs but then you at least put most.
And then you can start the event.

Then you have won some time


Furthermore, if it is required does not matter to me if I can, I can, and if it is not I can not, I find guild events still fun.

PuLoX

This is so out of hate and out of context. Pulox you were 5 min on RaidCall, went crazy on me, and the left. And now you quote out of context from those 5 min. Please read upon what has been discussed, especially Mini Balli's breakdown on it, and please edit this afterwards. A misinformed person is bound to say wrong things.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Sun May 05, 2013 8:00 pm

About the mandatory part.

I noticed in my hardcore gaming days a lot could be done by 50 players being 'commanded' in doing stuff.
But even more could be done by 7 people doing it out of free will. (yes, I did rebel against my own guild back then, we split off with 5 guys and had 2 friends join in. We kicked the old guild's ass and took over the area and the other big guilds)

Just illustrating (I was 16 back then, so don't blame me on the rebellion Very Happy )

My main point is people have a real life too. Me for example, I'm very busy with style-dancing. I train 4 evenings a weak with my partner, we are in a showteam with regular shows and there ain't anything in the world that means more to me than dancing and my dancing partner.

So making GM's mandatory wouldn't make a difference in getting me to join, cause I can't on certain days.

So I like the way the guild thinks, have a standard day for the 'big' guild mission and do smaller GM's on the other days.

Once again, just my little 1c Smile

NoWay (aka RĂ¡ven Crow aka Jory Flameshield aka Master Leala aka Elissa Fireheart aka Nimrod Bloodblade)
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Sun May 05, 2013 8:12 pm

Alright I've read about all of the post but I might have missed something so don't shoot me just yet.


I've slept on it a night and here is what I think,

first off. when making something mandatory, for better or for worse, people will think largely negative of this. this is down to human psychology. when you do something because you want to do it you feel fine about it. but if you tell anyone they have to do it, doesn't matter if they were planning on it or not, it evokes a response of a negative emotion. people do not like to be ordered around. this is a fact.

now onto the real topic here. making all days mandatory is not the way to go. as mini balli suggested we make one day, Sunday, mandatory. this wont mean that everyone will join but at least we have a set date and time where you can be almost sure you will get you're reward if you join. this alone should be incentive enough to join.
I fully disagree with handing out gifts for the people that join. see my above last sentence.

now I've heard the word "kick" flying around here too much. I'm not a leader and I do not know what has been discussed between them. but personally I'm deadly afraid of being kicked out of this guild. I enjoy it too much. No matter what, you will NOT be kicked because you didn't join a guild mission. kicking someone out of the guild is an absolute last resort. at this point in time this is not even on the agenda and I want to keep it that way.

so basically, I've gathered all opinions and such to recreate what the plan would be if or when we decide to go through with it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sunday's we are going to do a guild mission. If you are online roughly around that time then please take into account that we do these at set times. try not to start anything that you might not finish before the mission. this usually means stuff like dungeons or large missions.

a quote from Twapper:
If you are in the game and available for 30 min (yes, with right organisation, Guild Bounty wont take more than 30 min), you are required to attend Guild Missions.

Now, if for any reason you don't join in, this will NOT be a big issue, even if this occurs more than once. However, being part of this guild and not attending any of the Guild Missions will eventually lead to Actions.
end quote

These actions will of course start with us talking to you about why you don't join in. no action will be taken before this so don't worry.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A quote from Twapper:
While I like and actually support taking things slow, learn about stuff, and get better gradually, doing only tier 1 and tier 2 is not really the way to go. Even more, today we were only 2 groups so even a tier 2 would've been hard to succedd on.
End quote

why isnt this the way to go? sure we might take a bit more time if we don't finish a tier 3 but i personally can wait. we have all the time in the world. the point difference isn't that big anyway. i get that you want to unlock everything as fast as possible so we get more variety in there. but taking it slower is a lot safer and easier on all of us. In Dutch we have a saying about this but unfortunately it cant be translated into English. also the number of people that are online varies greatly with time and is just a matter of luck. yesterday we had two full groups and if we do it next week we might have 5 full groups. there is nothing you can change about this. just pure luck of the draw. mandatory will not change this.

extremely short version:
I agree making guild missions mandatory only on Sundays.

there, if you've read this wall of text start to finish then I applaud you. now read it CAREFULLY and think about it. take you're time and don't react rashly.

little side note:
Yesterday I reacted a bit too harshly and to hastily. I reacted to heavily on some of you and I sincerely apologize for it.
all spelling errors are copyright of me.

darkness dragon out.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Mon May 06, 2013 4:07 am

Quote :
Mandatory doesnt mean you have to log in, no matter what. It simply means that if you are in the game, and you know that on sundays we have set hours for guild missions, maybe choose to do that instead of doing a dungeon run. Now i used the word maybe, because even if you are loged in and you dont feel like doing a guild bounty, but you might go for a dungeon, thats still ok

from what you say there it sounds like it was never intended to be mandatory at all, I understand it should be encouraged for a day but I thought it always was.

With house of mirrors it fell apart (from my perspective) because of guild missions people who did them took a disliking to people who didn't to some extent, and then blacktider threatened he would be kicking everyone who doesn't participate in them if there online and miss three events.


My perspective on Raidcall, the guild meeting yh around 20 ppl were there but day to day when im online there is maybe 4-10 people on at those times and 30ish online in the guild and its the same people I hear discussing things, (my new mic should be on the way stoopid bank holiday) think how many people in the guild can you claim to know by their voice. I simply mean the majority of the guild dont use it it really is a small group that does.

I will defo take part in the bounties if i am online but I still think we will fail tier 3s from lack of numbers especially with the new 3 bosses and with the luck required to get all easy bosses.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Mon May 06, 2013 4:11 am

Mzem wrote:
Quote :
Mandatory doesnt mean you have to log in, no matter what. It simply means that if you are in the game, and you know that on sundays we have set hours for guild missions, maybe choose to do that instead of doing a dungeon run. Now i used the word maybe, because even if you are loged in and you dont feel like doing a guild bounty, but you might go for a dungeon, thats still ok

from what you say there it sounds like it was never intended to be mandatory at all, I understand it should be encouraged for a day but I thought it always was.

With house of mirrors it fell apart (from my perspective) because of guild missions people who did them took a disliking to people who didn't to some extent, and then blacktider threatened he would be kicking everyone who doesn't participate in them if there online and miss three events.


My perspective on Raidcall, the guild meeting yh around 20 ppl were there but day to day when im online there is maybe 4-10 people on at those times and 30ish online in the guild and its the same people I hear discussing things, (my new mic should be on the way stoopid bank holiday) think how many people in the guild can you claim to know by their voice. I simply mean the majority of the guild dont use it it really is a small group that does.

I will defo take part in the bounties if i am online but I still think we will fail tier 3s from lack of numbers especially with the new 3 bosses and with the luck required to get all easy bosses.

Check Guild Histroy for today Guild Bounty Tier 3. Smile
Also its too much to expect people to be on RC all the time. As long as they are online for big events (like 24 out of 32 online today) then im happy Smile

Cheers Mzem
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Mon May 06, 2013 8:49 pm

And not everybody likes the idea of speaking. We all have some kind of accent, unless you're english or american.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Mon May 06, 2013 10:20 pm

It is my time zone but it is very difficult for me to participate in just any guild event. I have to wake up or stay up to a ridiculous time of the night just to participate and lately I have been flat out working but am also struggling with family problems. If it was made mandatory I would be affected and I would not like to be kicked just cause I want to be a part of the guild.(not saying we are kicking so don't tell me off) what I would like, but not necessary, maybe once per week when I can participate in at least one. Also the Sunday bounty is a no no for me. I (don't mock me) am still in my final years of schooling and to stay up to a late hour is crazy.

Cheers Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Mission discussion on raidcall today and thoughts   Mon May 06, 2013 11:25 pm

Lady wrote:
It is my time zone but it is very difficult for me to participate in just any guild event. I have to wake up or stay up to a ridiculous time of the night just to participate and lately I have been flat out working but am also struggling with family problems. If it was made mandatory I would be affected and I would not like to be kicked just cause I want to be a part of the guild.(not saying we are kicking so don't tell me off) what I would like, but not necessary, maybe once per week when I can participate in at least one. Also the Sunday bounty is a no no for me. I (don't mock me) am still in my final years of schooling and to stay up to a late hour is crazy.

Cheers Smile

Or have different hours for it each day.
For example:
monday: dungeon at 10am, wvw at 2pm, guild mission at 6pm
wednesday wvw at 10 am, guild mission at 2 pm, dungeon at 6pm
...

That way people can have different events each day and participate more diversely.
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